WEIRTON CITY COUNCIL
COUNCIL MEETING - SPECIAL
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2008 9:00 A. M.
A special meeting of the Common Council of the City of Weirton, Hancock and Brooke Counties, West Virginia was held on Friday, September 26, 2008 at 9:00 A.M. in Council Chambers of the Weirton City Building.
Mayor Harris called the meeting to order.
Councilmembers in Attendance: George Ash Councilmember Ward 4 Ronnie Jones Councilmember Ward 1 Fred Marsh Councilmember Ward 3 Harold Miller Councilmember Ward 2 David Dalrymple Councilmember Ward 6 Max Fijewski Councilmember Ward 7 George Kondik Councilmember Ward 5
City Officials in Attendance: Gary DuFour City Manager Vincent Gurrera City Attorney Thomas J. Maher, Jr. City Clerk Gerrard Spencer Weirton Police Department Rick Stead Weirton Police Department Rod Rosnick Chief Code Official Debbie Swanson Finance Director
Others in Attendance: Craig Howell Media - Weirton Daily Times
Mayor Harris led everyone in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
COMMUNICATIONS
NONE
CITIZEN COMMENTS
Rick Stead 3113 Orchard Street, Weirton, WV: Re: Ordinance No. 1569 Mr. Stead commented, “Good morning gentlemen. My comments are not to be in any way, let me preface it by saying that it’s not in support or denial of Ordinance 1569. I’m here as a member of Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 84. In economic times when there’s less money to be spent, and I’m understanding some language in here is to hire and outside firm to come and do the inspections. I would question the wisdom of that when you have employees who have not had a pay raise in a few years, especially with a cost of living adjustment. So, I would ask that before you spend money outside of the City to bring people in to do inspections when there are people here that are capable of doing inspections that you revisit that and maybe take some of that money and put it towards an employee pay raise for General Fund employees. Thank you.” Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
Mr. Gerrard Spencer 216 Arena Drive, Weirton, WV: Re: Ordinance No. 1569 Mr. Spencer commented, “As Rick stated, I’m the President of the F.O.P. and I’m kind of going to stay on the same line as Stead. We’re spending a lot of money outside and not taking care of our own as giving the employees pay raises. And, buying parks and outside firms to do this billing, which is another thing we’re spending money on, and not our own employees. I wish that we would not do this. We have Code Enforcement that can do the same job. So, why would we spend money outside the City in doing that? I’d like to give the City more raises.” Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Can I ask a question?” Mr. Spencer commented, “Yes.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Did I hear you say that why did we spend money on parks?” Mr. Spencer commented, “Yes. More parks that, yes.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Do you have objection to that?” Mr. Spencer commented, “I haven’t seen one person sit in one of those parks yet.” Councilmember Ash commented, “I’m just confused, because nobody came to Council prior to us doing that.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Well, I’m just saying that you guys are spending money outside doing everything else but taking care of the City employees.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Well, the ordinance doesn’t say that. The ordinance says we could use City employees or outside. We haven’t made that determination yet.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Well, where’s the money going to come from if you have to use an outside company?” Councilmember Ash commented, “It could come form CDBG money or General Fund.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Right. CDBG money as I recall if for foot patrol. Right? In, mainly your Ward? Right?” Councilmember Ash commented, “That’s one of the things.” Mr. Spencer commented, “And, we make a lot of arrests in your Ward on foot patrol. Right? Well, if you take money out of there, you’re going to cut funds for foot patrol. Right?” Councilmember Ash commented, “No.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Yes.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Nobody said that.” Mr. Spencer commented, “If there’s less money, then where’s the money going to come from?” Councilmember Ash commented, “There’s other money. There’s other money going to other agencies. It may not go there.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Well, you’re cutting another agency for somebody we don’t really need when Code Enforcement can do the job.” Councilmember Ash commented, “All right. I understand what you’re saying.” Mr. Spencer commented, “That’s what we’ve got them for.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Officer, I don’t want to debate the issue with you, but just to reinforce a specific point. And, we can talk about it later if you like with whomever you want to talk about it. The reason why they were looking for outside inspectors, there’s a legal reason why we were doing that. You more than anybody could appreciate that. So, we could talk about that, but having someone from outside of the City doing the inspections removes a very difficult legal situation for the City in us doing that. So, that’s we’re pursuing that as an option, not because we want to do, take away from anybody or anything along that line. We’ve discussed it in open forum in previous meetings on why we have to do that, so, if after the meeting you want to talk maybe to George or one of us about that…” Mr. Spencer commented, “Well, it will probably be too late then.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Well, whether it is…” Mr. Spencer commented, “If you pass this, it’s going to be too late.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Well, whether it is or isn’t, the thing I’m trying to share with you is that there’s a legal reason why we’re doing it.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Cause it’s illegal.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Yes, sir.” Mr. Spencer commented, “Yes.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “So, that’s why we’re doing it, not because we want to take money away from anybody.” Councilmember Ash commented, “And one other issue on that, if you don’t mind, the ordinance is passed. It’s done. All this today is an amendment for a date for the initial registration of the properties. So, the ordinance is complete. It’s over with. It’s been passed.” Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
OLD BUSINESS
Ordinance No. 1615 (New) Amending Ordinance No. 1569 which established the registration and inspection of rental housing units within Ward IV, City of Weirton, WV.
Motion was made by Councilmember Ash, second by Councilmember Fijewski.
Councilmember Marsh commented, “If I can, I’d like to make a comment. There’s two parts to this. One is the filing application date. The other is it basically says no fee will be assessed. Without having discussion as to how this is being funded I would like to propose that we move that application date to December 31, 2008 until we have time to sit down and discuss where the funding is coming from. I’ll put that in the form of a motion to amend it to December 31, 2008.
Councilmember Miller made a second to the motion.
Councilmember Ash commented, “I ask that you no approve the amendment. And, the reason is we’d like to get the inspections started right after the first of the year, probably the first of March, February I mean, somewhere in the first week of February. And that is that if we need time between now and then to get all the registrations in so we can make up the list to whoever is going to do the inspections and get in there and get started in sometime around the first of February. So, I ask that you do not approve the amendment.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “Councilman Marsh, your recommendation is because you want to know, which I feel I think I want to know too, where the money is coming from, number one, and how much is coming, what the fee is going to be, the exact fee is going to be.” Councilmember Marsh commented, “Yes. One of my concerns is we did not get from the Task Force what we needed would be the numbers. All we got was an argument about whether to inspect or not. We have no idea what this is going to cost.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I think we do. I think there have been indications of it Fred.” Councilmember Marsh commented, “Well, we have an idea.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “There have been indications, but no definite, no definite contract, no definite fee. I’ve heard twenty dollars. I’ve heard seven dollars. I’ve heard seventy dollars. I don’t know. I’ve never seen a contract.” Mayor Harris commented, “It depends on how many times the guy has got to go back and try to get in that property.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “We also have a meeting set for Monday, I think it’s ten thirty, to discuss that. So, we’ve been, we’ve been, my thought is that we’ve been fooling around with this thing for I don’t know how long Councilman Ash.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Since February of last year, of 08 I mean.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “The other thing is I’ve said to Council individually and collectively, I’m just making the same point. If we feel as we did when we passed this ordinance that it is in the best interest of the City to clean up this area, then we should be ready to do the investment necessary to do so. And, I think that we should not lose that point. Each and every one of us around this table has had monies spent in our wards for various projects, and as Councilman Jones appropriately put to me and others, spending this kind of money can make a significant difference in Ward Four is an expenditure that we should be willing to undertake. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to clean up that area and to make it a significant difference in the lives of people who live there. Now, the money it takes, the thirty-first, it’ll not be more than, what, four more weeks. What are we going to know in four more weeks that we’re not going to know by…?” Councilmember Kondik commented, “What the exact cost is going to be.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “You’ll know that by the twenty-eighth. You’ll know that by the twenty-eighth.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “Have a special session on the twenty-ninth and pass it.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Well, you’ve got a meeting on Monday at 10:30 to discuss the issue to find out specifically what the costs are going to be. That is three days from today. You’ll be able to know what the costs are. You’ll be able to address it and make a decision well within the November 28th timeframe.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “So, we should have had this meeting on the 29th.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “We should have done a lot of things on this thing George, but the truth of the matter is that we keep on delaying it.”
ROLL CALL VOTE:
Councilman Ash No Councilman Jones No Councilman Marsh Yes Councilman Miller Yes Councilman Dalrymple No Councilman Fijewski No Councilman Kondik Yes
The motion to approve the amendment was defeated by majority, 4/3.
Mayor Harris asked if there were any questions or comments on the original motion.
Mayor Harris commented, “At this time I’d like to make a couple of comments. We have, we do have Code Officials, I believe, that do a fine job out there. I want to let you Councilmen know that. I had, so far since I’ve been in the Office, I’ve chaired the Building Enforcement Agency. At that time I had 42 properties that came before us. Out of those 42 properties, 32 of them are downtown. 75% of our Code Officials time looks like it’s being spent in the downtown area, so I believe that we’re already doing the inspections that we’re supposed to be doing. The Building Enforcement Agency, we had 26 houses, well actually structures that came before us. 26 of them have been torn down or are being torn down at this moment. 16 of those out of that 42, the people that actually own the properties actually tore them down their selves. I believe that the way I’m looking here, it’s about a 50/50 home occupied, owner occupied and renter, landlord occupied. I don’t believe that we should be spending money that we have our own guys, we have Code Officials that do that same job, inspect every day, day in, day out, they do their job. We’re going to and hire independent contractors to come in and do the work that they’re doing now. It does not make good sense to me. At this time that’s one of the, that’s one of the comments that I wanted to make. We have, we’re looking to get this money from maybe CDBG, from the General Fund, we don’t know yet. We have individuals that have been asking for raises for a year now since we’ve been in office. And, we’re going to turn around and create new jobs for people that don’t even live here, independent contractors, to come in and do them. I don’t believe that’s right. I believe you should take care of your own first. Also, we have a City liability. We’re going to hire independent contractors to come inside this City and inspect these homes, and when they inspect these homes, they’re going to leave and say that house is certified to rent. So, as a landlord, we’re going to go ahead and rent these homes. Now, if something happens to that house that we just certified, we got certified, the City did, if something happens to that house, it catches fire, the floor falls in, some individual gets hurt, the City is now liable for that property because we went and had someone inspect it and we certified that property.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Excuse me. Is that factual? How can that be factual? We’re not certifying the worthiness of the fire protection.” Mr. Gurrera commented, “It’s our agents who are.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “They’re not certifying the fire protection worthiness of it. They’re limited…” Mr. Gurrera commented, “If they did a negligent inspection…” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “They’re required to do a limited inspection on limited items. How that can be construed to be covering fires to me is beyond my estimation. And, that means, and that means right now, that every City Inspector who goes into any home on all of the things that he just mentioned, we’re liable for fires? False.” Mr. Gurrera commented, “No. Basically what I’m saying is this. If an agent of ours goes in and does an inspection, it’s similar to the same type of lawsuit that would be created as though I brought my vehicle into a dealership to be inspected. He does the inspection. Two days later my tire falls off, or my engine blows up, and I cause an accident. I may not be the principal person liable for it, but I’m going to be sued, and I’m going to be part of the lawsuit. It’s as if every other agency that we have. They are subject to liability just like every other person that we would hire. All I’m trying to say is they’re not, not liable because they’re independent contractors.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I understand that. So, if I understand what you’re saying correctly, currently when our inspectors go in and do an inspection into a building, we’re liable for a fire that occurs as the result of that inspection. So what’s the difference in liability?” Mr. Gurrera commented, “There is no difference in liability?” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I rest my case then.” Mayor Harris commented, “There is no difference in liability, but our Inspections, our Code Officials, they’re doing it by State code, where having some outside company come in that we don’t really know what they’re doing. They’re doing a limited amount of inspections. They’re doing as little as possible, so when they come into that house, and there’s a wire, a faulty wire, or a faulty floor, and they fall through, we are, the City’s responsible for putting that resident…” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I don’t think you can say that Mayor. I understand politically why you’re saying it. And, I understand…” Mayor Harris commented, “You’re not. You’re not…” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I understand politically. I’m not suggesting I am. I’m just giving you my opinion. I understand politically why you’re motivated to make the statements that you’re making. But, I want to say I think it’s disingenuous of you to make those statements when in fact you have been part of the conversations we’ve had indicating why legally we wanted to go outside to a third party. So, I understand the audience here wants you to stand up and be in their favor because of the political motivation of that, but I think it’s disingenuous of you to do that knowing full well why we went to a third party, and it’s not because of anything you’ve suggested. I think that’s not appropriate.” Mayor Harris commented, “Well, it was brought to my attention that we hold a liability issue, and that’s why I’m bringing that forward right at this moment, after I talked…” Councilmember Marsh commented, “Excuse me. I think this is a mute point because no where in here does it say an outside agency is going to do this. That has yet to be determined. All it says is that there’s no fee to do it. We haven’t determined who’s doing this yet. This is a mute discussion in my eyes.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I just want to say it’s politically motivated, and I think that’s why I’m having a hard time with that. I really and truly am. If we do not have these conversations in depth over the past ten or twelve months then I would understand and go along with what is being said. But, that is absolutely, unequivocally items that we’ve covered and discussed in great detail.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “Take all of the political and all of the ten months that we’ve been around all of this stuff. It comes down to the bottom line, the end of the day. What is this thing going to cost us? Is it coming out of the CDBG? It says it may come out of CDBG money, and it may come out of General Fund. Guys, we can’t afford to take it out of General Fund. We need, we need to say hey, where is this money coming from, how much is it costing, can we do it in house. That’s the problem with this whole thing.” Mayor Harris commented, “Well, at this time it doesn’t look like no one knows where the money’s coming from. They don’t even know how much it costs.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “And, that’s the problem. Ok, and you’re going to spend a hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer’s money, or you’re going to approve it today to spend a hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer’s money when the Police Department and Fire Department, they need raises. The City employees need raises. And, you’re going to send it to a firm outside the City. I got a problem with that guys. I got a problem with that.” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Do you really want to go? Do you really want to go there? Do you really want to say that this is going to be the item that’s going screw around with employee raises?” Councilmember Kondik commented, “No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Let me…” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Do you want to go back through the year and talk about other items that we’ve spent money on that we shouldn’t…?” Councilmember Kondik commented, “There’s a ton of stuff. There’s a ton of stuff.” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Exactly.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “Exactly right.” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “So, don’t pin it to this.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “I’m not. I’m just saying…” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “You are. No. Don’t pin it to this.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “This is a part of the problem that we need to be fixing. This is a good thing to have, but how can you go on the limb and say you don’t even know how much it’s going to cost? How can you say that?” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “We did that with the cameras. We went out on a limb with that.” Councilmember Kondik commented, “That was completely different.” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “No it’s not. It’s the same. It’s the same.” CROSSTALK Mayor Harris commented, “Hold on. The only thing that I would like to say before we do this roll call vote is, we have Code Officials. They do the job now. They’ve done the job for years. We’re not asking them to do anything different. They inspect homeowner occupied or renter occupied whatever it is, they inspect it. They go in the house, outside the house. They have, I don’t understand why we have to create new jobs.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Well, for the last time I want to say it again. We were advised by legal council, for the last time, we were advised by legal council that it was not in the best interest of the City to have our Inspectors going into these units and inspecting the units, because they would be required to do the inspections under a different set of criteria and look at different things. So, we had a legal opinion that counseled us and told us it was in our best interest to do that, not once, not twice, but multiple times. So, for us to be sitting here today having this same conversation boggles my mind.” Mr. Gurrera commented, “And, basically so that we’re all correct on this. The legal opinion deals with this fact. We cannot have our Inspectors go in there and ignore stuff. If our inspector goes in, we can’t say only do a minimum inspection. He can’t go in there, see faulty wiring, and say well, I’m not supposed to inspect that today. I’m just supposed to inspect whether or not there’s water on your floor or something of to that extent. He can’t go in there and pick and choose if he’s a City official. It’s the same way we can’t have a Police Officer go inside of a house, see a bunch of criminal activity on the right hand side, and say I’m only going to pay attention to what’s on my left hand. We cannot have our City people do that. Are we liable for the third party? We’re just as liable as if we hired anybody.” Mayor Harris commented, “The same liability, no matter what.” Mr. Gurrera commented, “Absolutely.” Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.” Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Just like when Rose Pest Solutions, when they come in and do work for us, anyone, any vendor that we bring in to do any kind of work whatsoever. If we hire another attorney to help you and he trips and falls down the steps, we’re liable for that.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Mayor, I’d like to have the floor please.” Mayor Harris commented, “Go ahead.” Councilmember Ash commented, “We passed. Well, we didn’t, but previous Council has passed, and I mean the previous even before the last four years, has passed that the City of Weirton and the City of Weirton Code Officials would inspect under State Code. That’s been like that for years. This ordinance, this ordinance, it said, in Ward Four, when they walk into these house, whether it be Code Officials or outside people, it makes no difference, they do their UPCS Code. This ordinance just passed to do that. We have a right as Council to make a decision to say you do UPCS Code, just like we did, and previous Councils have done, and said you can under State Code. You are allowed to do that. And, for us not to be allowed to do that would be ridiculous. So, you know, we had that, it’s in the Charter, we have plenary statute where we can make decisions like this. No where, anywhere did anyone say it’s cost a hundred thousand dollars. As a matter of fact, we have somebody coming in here Monday that’s going to explain to us what it’s going to cost. I personally believe it’s going to be under ten thousand dollars. That’s my personal belief. I hope that this Council will go ahead and pass this and get this over with once and for all. The ordinance is in place. All we’re asking for you to do now is say ok there’s going to be a timeframe. You have to have your houses ready for (unintelligible) by November 28th.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “George, we’re also removing the twenty dollar fee for landlords.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Yes. I was getting ready to do that.” Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I’m sorry.” Councilmember Ash commented, “I was getting ready to make that comment. Also, it removes the twenty dollar fee for the landlords, because Council came to me, members of Council, not six Councilmembers, not even four, but members of Council came to me and said do you really care how it’s paid for. I don’t care how it’s paid for, as long as the inspections are done. If it was a hundred thousand dollars, I would probably be complaining. It’s not going to be anywhere near that. I know that. Other people in this body know that. And, for you guys to set here and argue about something that’s already been passed. You passed it by a five to two vote. And, now you’re going to sit back and complain about something. Make up your minds and stick by it, or get the hell off of Council. And, another thing about the Mayor’s comments. You set there in all those workshops. You’re the one that asked me to amend this ordinance numerous times. And, now you’re coming back for the public saying, ‘oh let’s not do this because of this or that.’ That’s wrong.” Mayor Harris commented, “I don’t believe that the City, the City or the taxpayers need to fund this. Numerous times, we heard it was a business. I’ve never, not once said that hey I didn’t want to pay the twenty dollars or I was worried about twenty dollars for a landlord to pay it. My thing now is, we’re costing the taxpayers money and the City to take care of a problem that you think is out there when we have the Building Enforcement Agency taking care of that problem and the Code Officials.” Councilmember Ash commented, “They’re not going inside houses to inspect every home.” Mayor Harris commented, “They can go inside the house if there’s a problem and there’s a complaint. They can do that.” Councilmember Ash commented, “Everything that the City, that the Code Official’s do is complaint driven.” Mayor Harris commented, “We’re going to sit, we’ll sit here all day and argue with every one of you guys, and it doesn’t matter, so we may as well just call for a roll call vote. Roll call vote please.”
ROLL CALL VOTE:
Councilman Ash Yes Councilman Jones Yes Councilman Marsh Yes Councilman Miller Yes Councilman Dalrymple Yes Councilman Fijewski Yes Councilman Kondik Yes
The motion passed by majority, 7/0.
Motion to adjourn the meeting after the closing prayer was made by Councilmember Kondik, second by Councilmember Fijewski.
The motion to adjourn passed by majority, 7/0.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business before this September 26, 2008 special session of the Weirton City Council the meeting was adjourned after the closing prayer.
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