WEIRTON CITY COUNCIL
COUNCIL MEETING - SPECIAL
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 30, 2008 9:00 A. M.
A special meeting of the Common Council of the City of Weirton, Hancock and Brooke Counties, West Virginia was held on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 at 9:00 A.M. in Council Chambers of the Weirton City Building.
Mayor Harris called the meeting to order.
Councilmembers in Attendance: George Ash Councilmember Ward 4 Ronnie Jones Councilmember Ward 1 Fred Marsh Councilmember Ward 3 Harold Miller Councilmember Ward 2 David Dalrymple Councilmember Ward 6 Max Fijewski Councilmember Ward 7 George Kondik Councilmember Ward 5
City Officials in Attendance: John Brown Public Works Director Gary DuFour City Manager Vince Gurrera City Attorney David Lashhorn Fire Chief Thomas J. Maher, Jr. City Clerk Bruce Marshall Police Chief A. D. Mastrantoni Utilities Director Debbie Swanson Interim Finance Director Rod Rosnick Chief Code Official
Others in Attendance: Gio Rossi Media - Weirton Daily Times Brenda Mull Weirton Area Chamber of Commerce
Mayor Harris led the Pledge of Allegiance. COMMUNICATIONS
NONE NEW BUSINESS
Ordinance No. (New) to rescind ordinance no. 1569 for the registration and inspection of rental housing units within ward iv, city of weirton, wv.
Councilmember Ash commented, “I apologize, but we have citizens here that may want to comment. I’d like to have them comment if they want to.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Do you have anything signed?”
Mr. Maher commented, “We can if you’d like. Yes.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Would anybody at this time like to make comments? Thank you. All right go ahead, under new business.”
Ordinance No. (New) to rescind ordinance no. 1569 for the registration and inspection of rental housing units within ward iv, city of weirton, wv.
Motion was made by Councilmember Jones, second by Councilmember Miller.
Councilmember Ash commented, “Mayor, I’d like to make a motion that we stay the rescinding of Ordinance 1569 until the study is completed if we pass the study that Councilman Marsh would like to have, because if we do the study and then it comes back saying that we should doing what the ordinance already says to do, there’s no sense in us rescinding something that’s already in place. So, I’d like to make a motion that we amend that to just stay the rescinding this Ordinance 1569 until the study is completed.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Can I get a second on the amendment?”
Councilmember Miller commented, “I’ll second it.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Any questions or comments on the amendment?”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Is that the correct legal term? Stayed or…”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Yes, it is.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Ok. Thank you.”
Mayor Harris commented, “At this time can we get a roll call vote then on the amendment?
ROLL CALL VOTE
Councilman Ash Yes Councilman Jones Yes Councilman Marsh Yes Councilman Miller No Councilman Dalrymple Yes Councilman Fijewski Yes Councilman Kondik Yes
The motion to table the ordinance passed by majority, 6/1.
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Excuse me. I don’t want to be out of order, but if, if that resolution doesn’t pass, how does it affect what we just did?”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Then we’re going to come back and ask for reconsideration under Robert’s Rules of Order.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Thank you.”
The motion carried by majority, 7/0.
Ordinance No. (New) to require the registration of rental property city wide
The ordinance died for a lack of a motion.
Resolution TO REPEAL THE MORATORIUM ON OPEN BURNING IN THE CITY OF WEIRTON.
Motion was made by Councilmember Dalrymple, second by Councilmember Marsh.
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “I’d like to amend that to have the resolution become effective on May 10th.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Why May 10th?”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “May 10th would be the, with the ordinance that was passed the last time. It would be cleaner because that’s when it would take effect. There wouldn’t be any overlap. They wouldn’t have to I guess you could say enforce two different rules going into that, so if May 10th is the day that the City ordinance that Councilman Fijewski came up with, takes effect, so it’s a cleaner, cleaner break I guess you could say.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Thank you.”
Councilmember Fijewski made a second to the motion.
The motion to amend the ordinance carried by majority, 7/0.
Mayor Harris requested a roll call vote on the ordinance as amended.
ROLL CALL VOTE
Councilman Kondik Yes
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I’m sorry. I was distracted. What is it exactly?”
Mr. Maher commented, “You just voted on a motion to amend the resolution. Now, you are voting on the resolution as amended.”
Councilman Fijewski Yes Councilman Dalrymple Yes Councilman Miller Yes Councilman Marsh Yes Councilman Jones Yes Councilman Ash Yes
The motion carried by majority, 7/0.
Resolution to commission a task force to address the issues pertaining to rental and owner occupied properties within the city of weirton.
Motion was made by Councilmember Marsh, second by Councilmember Ash.
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Councilman Marsh, how long do you plan or is there a time frame that you have before you come up with a decision or a game plan with this?”
Councilmember Marsh commented, “They are charged to have it by the July regular Council meeting. If they need an additional thirty days, by our graces, they can do it.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “So, July 30th you’re going to have something?”
Councilmember Marsh commented, “July 7th I think is the date in there. Yes, July 7th is the July regular Council meeting. If they need an additional thirty days, that’s by a majority vote of this quorum.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I just want to make a comment. I think this is a quagmire or epic proportions. I don’t understand why we as Council are getting in the middle or rental, renters and property owners. The State of West Virginia has I think regulations in governing dispute resolutions for renters and for landlords. It’s well spelled out as I understand it. It’s already a state law. The other thing, I’d be very candid with my peers, what I’m concerned about is we have two individuals on this City body who are landlords within the City of Weirton, and I’m concerned that people who want to have a political issues could potentially use this as a resource to affect them in some way or other which is unfair. I’m not saying it would happen, just that potential exists. I think that we as a City Council should not get in the middle of this. I think if there are problems between a tenant and a landlord there are well established procedures for resolution of it, and that as a Council we should not get in the middle of it. I don’t think it’s our business, and I would suggest that we’re going to do something that’s going to come back to haunt us in a major, major way. I also think it’s unfair to some of the members of this body, so, with that I understand good intentions, but as the saying goes, the pathway to hell is lined with good intentions. But, I just think this is something we should really, really take a very serious look at, and not get involved with it. Thank you.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Mayor, the way I understand this resolution is not to get in the middle of the landlords and the tenants, but to look at the housing stock throughout the City of Weirton. Correct me if I’m wrong, Vince. And, it’s not only landlords of rental properties; it’s also owner occupied properties that you want this commission to look at, or the task force to look at?”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Yes.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “So, it’s, no, it’s not getting in between the two. It’s not going to settle disputes between landlords and their tenants. It has nothing to do with that as I understand this.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Councilman Ash, I appreciate that, but that’s why we have an Inspections Department. If people have complaints they can file it with the Inspections Department. If Councilmembers have complaints we can file it with the Inspections Department. It’s their job and their responsibility to enforce the standards as they have been written and approved. And, to me it’s like double kill. I mean why do we keep on coming over ourselves? Why do we keep on trying to recreate the wheel when we in fact have state, state ordinances to help in this area as well as city ordinances to help in this area? I, as I said, I understand the good intentions here, and I’m not, I’m not trying to speak against that. I just think that we’re getting involved in something that is already laws and statutes that govern this, that take care of it, and I don’t think it’s something the City needs to get involved with. I appreciate your clarification.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Mr. Gurrera, is there already a law set for the State to take care of this?”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Chapter 37 of the West Virginia Code, I believe it’s 37, dictates the responsibilities of landlord and tenants. Also, the magistrate court system is set up for disputes between landlords and tenants and the circuit court, if they believe the dispute is over a certain sum, usually it’s five thousand dollars, then the circuit court judge would take over, but below that usually the magistrate court. So, the short answer to it is, you know, we have standards, and I think probably the only way to change that is if we get one of our legislators to change state law.”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “If you want to talk about the Pennsylvania Avenue project which is very similar to what’s going on right now, because it seems to be that there are those who were not satisfied with the UDO, therefore they decided to go in and try to change it around, and here we are again with an ordinance we haven’t even had a chance to let take flight, and we’re trying to rescind it before the 30 days are even up, and now we’re going to put a task force together to figure out the right way to do it when we had plenty of meetings and plenty of time to get this straightened out. It went through the readings it had to go through. It passed in a fairly good vote. We need to buck up and when we do pass something, we need to stick by it and quit coming back either a month or two months or a year later and saying, ‘well, we don’t like the way this is. We need to change this around.’ You either put it in and run with it or vote it down. This is getting out of hand. The City Attorney even led to the fact that these depositions that we may be encountering down the road are going to become more frequent, because we’re making bad decisions as a group putting ordinances out there that we either have not researched enough or we researched it enough and somebody’s gotten upset about either getting complaints or something has been wrong with it they don’t like, so we have to revisit again. And, all that is doing and showing to the community is that we are not a cohesive unit when it comes to supporting the things that we put out there that we expect our citizens to follow. We better get a handle on that because we are not showing the City that we can govern very well if we have to keep coming back in here and repairing things down the road. That’s all I have to say.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Nobody, nobody felt the pain of the UDO more than I did, more than Rod did. We spent years putting the UDO together only to find out at the last eleventh hour when we passed it that there were people that didn’t understand it, that didn’t study it, that had nothing to do with it, come forward because of their own personal reasons wanting it changed. Nobody felt the pain. And, what’s going to happen here, ok, is, I’m going to grant this study to see what’s going to happen. And, what’s going to happen, after the study’s going to happen, somebody else is going to complain about something that isn’t right.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “I agree with, I agree with you on that. We should absolutely. (Unintelligible). If you do an ordinance, I think you should follow up the ordinance and do it yourself. Don’t depend on somebody else to do it, too. If we have an ordinance, we need to take, do it our self. We need to take that ordinance and run with it, just like you said. I agree with you.”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Well, and we’re getting back to, we’re getting off of the UDO thing and back into what we’re talking about here, we did have ample opportunity to kick this rental inspection and registration ordinance around. I mean, we even had a special workshop to discuss it, a couple readings, citizen’s comments. There was plenty of time if we were going to pull it we could have pulled it before we put it in, into act, but, you know, we didn’t. And, I just don’t like the way this Council’s headed. I don’t like the way that, we’re just too much in, it’s almost like we can’t make up our minds on what we want to do. And, that just is not good government, period, and we need to get that straightened out soon, if not today, soon. If not, we may as well just all go together, go down to City Manager DuFour’s office, tender our resignations, hold another election and let somebody else get in here that’s going to stand up and do some stuff in this community and not worry about getting twenty phone calls or what it might not be. We were put in this position to make tough decisions and sometimes those decisions come with heat. You have to understand that you have to take that heat. I don’t like it, but that’s part of the job. I would hope that you guys listen today and let’s make this the last time we have to go through this type of thing. We’ll have the study. We’ll try to get this straightened out, but I don’t want to go down this road again where we’re putting something into an ordinance for the City for the citizens and then having to come back again because, for whatever reason. Was it some kind of legitimate reason? Personally, I don’t feel that we needed to go back and do anything with this inspection and registration ordinance, but that’s my opinion. I may be in a minority in that, and that’s fine. But, we need to stop this now. I’ve had enough of it, and I’m sure the people that pay attention to what we do down here have had enough of it too. Thank you.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Mayor, we’ve got to go back to the Ordinance 1569, and less than thirty days ago it passed by a 5 to 2 vote, and I agree with David, and I just don’t understand. I can understand Mr. Jones’ and Mr. Miller’s position. They didn’t vote for it in the first place, so I understand that for them to come to back with an ordinance to rescind it, so be it. That’s just part of the system. But, I don’t want the idea that two thirds of this Council approves something, and just because some Council members get pressure put on them, all of a sudden we’re going to back peddle. I don’t like that. Either you have the guts to stand up for what you believe in or you don’t. Now, we went through the workshops. We had many, many conversations about this. The ordinance went through email to everybody. The City Manager and our City Attorney reviewed it. There was not a problem. But, because of one person who sent a potential lawsuit letter to us, we’re all backing down. I’m not backing down, I know David’s not, and, I know Max is not because I’ve talked to them. I don’t understand how we could back down after the fact, less than thirty days. The ordinance wasn’t even implemented yet. Nobody had a chance to do anything with it, and all of a sudden we’re running scared. That’s nonsense. Either you believe in what you voted on or you don’t. And, when that happens, stick by your vote, unless the City Attorney comes back and says we got a legal problem. Then we have to fix that legal problem. He hasn’t said that to me. I don’t know if he’s said that to the rest of you, but he hasn’t said that to me. But, this is nonsense to come back and revoke something. I’m glad we haven’t done it. I’m glad we’re going to do the study. This study’s City wide. It’s going to take a lot longer than July 7th. Fortunately, there was a study done last Council if I’m correct, Gary, that Ward 4 has already been done. A study was done with that, and my understanding is the last Council determined it to be slum and blight. Am I correct in that?”
Mr. DuFour commented, “Well The last Council reaffirmed. It had been longstanding.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “So, that Ward has already been taken care of. You’ve only got six other wards to go. I don’t think you’re going to have too much problems with some of the wards, but it’s owner occupied and it’s rental properties. Also, the City Attorney, let me make sure I have my notes right here, stated it’s under Chapter 37 of the West Virginia Code. If I understand that code, that’s disputes between the landlords and the tenants. That’s not what we’re doing here. It has nothing to do with this West Virginia Chapter 37. He keeps going back, and some of the other people keep going back saying it’s a dispute between the landlord and the tenant. It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. We’re looking at housing stock and recommendations of what to do to correct it.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “I’ve got something to say. Vince, correct me if I’m wrong. Now, if we get all these lawsuits, and I’m, I’m, maybe I’m wrong making this point, but didn’t, wasn’t it understood that you were so busy that we wouldn’t be able to do these, that we may have to hire an outside lawyer to…”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “We, well, we would definitely have to hire outside counsel to handle some of these lawsuits. Without a doubt we would have to do that.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “That’s what I thought. Is that why it’s back on the floor today? Yes. That was one reason I wanted it back on.”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Well, I think that and some of the Councilman didn’t like the results of what had happened. But, yes, we’re going to be facing lawsuits. We’re facing one now where we’re in a deposition on May 8th. And, then part of the reason is, I don’t fell real comfortable talking about lawsuits…”
Councilmember Jones commented, “Well, I just want to know your opinion. I just think that…”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “I have no problem going into executive session if we’re going to talk about some of this stuff. But, yes, because of some of the, because of some of things that are going on with our Council, we’re going to be looking at lawsuits. What’s empowering people who want to sue the City is the fact that after something is passed, we still have Councilmen complaining about it afterwards. That does nothing other than let people who want to sue the City state that, ‘Hey, I got a way to sue the City.’ And, that’s what we’ve got to stop. That’s the problem we have. Once the, once we have a decision of Council, whether you voted for it whether you voted against it, it’s now the City’s decision. As a City representative, you have to defend it. There are ordinances out there that I have to defend that I personally don’t think are ordinances that I would have voted for, but that’s, as the City Attorney, I defend those. As a Councilman, there may be ordinances that you don’t feel should have been passed. But, once it’s passed, it’s passed, and our position has to be that it, that’s what we have. We can’t, we can’t keep opening ourselves up to these situations.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “And, point in case, you know, Mr. Jones states that, and then we just got a letter as we set here today, and we have to go to depositions at 10:00 A. M. in Room 201 on May 8th because of a lawsuit that Greene’s Towing versus the City of Weirton Case. Since we’re not in executive session it doesn’t make any difference to me, I’ll never go into executive session again until we pass the resolution that says we’re not going to come out here and mouth off what we said in there. Ok, that’s what we did the last time we went into executive session, and we had all kind of problems about it, so that’s another issue. But, if we’re going to stand back and say, ok, we’re going to be deposed, we may have to hire outside counsel to fight these things, here’s the prime example. Some people said, told me, it’s going to cost between forty to sixty thousand dollars to fight the rental ordinances case if we have to hire outside counsel. What’s it going to be with Greene’s Towing? I’d like to know that. Is it going to be another forty to sixty thousand dollars? Are we going to revoke every ordinance because we’re afraid that we’re going to have to pay some money out? Make up our minds and stick by it. If we can’t do that, get the hell out. I’m done.”
Councilmember Miller commented, “I just have one thing to say. I voted against it for the same reasons Ronnie did, I believe. You know, we’re not seven little communities within one. We’re one community. And, one of my objections was is that we’re doing it in one ward. Why not the entire City? We should have put a commission together before we even brought that to Council, but it came to Council, and I voted against it. The other thing is the owner occupied I thought needed to be part of it. In my ward, I have as many owner occupied terrible looking pieces of property as I do rental property. And, I just think that that showed a lack of unity on our part to select one ward, and I know that somebody talked about it being a trial case or test case. But, you just can’t isolate one ward when we’re responsible for the entire community. Yes, we represent a section of that community, but we make decisions for the entire community. And, I’m not in real favor of forming this committee, because to go around, we already know the condition of the community. Every, every Councilman here could probably tell you the exact houses on every street that need to be inspected. What we need to do is look at, to enforce the ordinances that we have on inspection and the regulations, and it seems as though we just never have enough time for people, because we’re, you know, we’re just overwhelmed with conditions today that are worse than they used to be. But, I just want to say that. My position has not changed. If we do a universal, across the entire city, I’ll support it totally. But, I think the owner occupant needs to be included in it so that we handle everybody equally.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you Councilman.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “If I could, Mayor, I’d just like to revisit at least what I thought I heard when we did study this, the original ordinance that Councilman Ash presented. My understanding and my recollection is (unintelligible). Number one, we did it as a pilot project, which is not unusual. There’s cities, states that do pilot projects all the time to determine what’s feasible, whether or not it was something that was workable. Two, targeting one section of the community because of its particular problems is not atypical. That happens in a lot of instances, for example, CDBG monies. I don’t get any of it in Ward 7 because I don’t qualify for it. The Federal Government on their own has indicated that you can only use those funds in certain places because they have identified that those places need more help than other places. It a common practice. States do it. The Federal Government does it. It’s a common practice. But, in closing, my, my, I voted for it because we were told, number one, legally we were ok, two, that we were targeting a very specific problem in a very specific area. We were going to do it as a pilot program and then we as a Council would revisit it at some future date to decide whether or not it made sense to go to other places in the, throughout the City. Why do something throughout the whole City of the need does not apply throughout the whole City. So, I just want to revisit what I think I recollect I was told and why I supported the ordinance at the time it was presented. And, to my way of thinking, nothing in regards to what I was told two and a half months ago has changed. It’s still the same. So, I don’t understand why, why we’re here. I agree with Dave. I just don’t understand. We just got to stop doing this kind of stuff, and if we make a mistake, if we made a mistake in that ordinance, and counsel comes back to us and says gentlemen, ‘you’ve made an error here.’ We missed it. That happens. Fine. Let’s go and change the language. Let’s fix it. Let’s do the right thing. But, I’m not hearing that. So, if it, if there is something here that I don’t know about or someone hasn’t told me about then shame on me. But, I just don’t, I just don’t get it.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “I think, I think why we’re here is because after we passed the ordinance the last time, Harold, correct me if I’m wrong, Rod, we were getting complaints throughout the whole City of properties that need to be repaired, not just in Ward 4. And, I think that’s why we’re here.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “But we, there’s ways, there’s ways for us currently, under current statute, there’s ways for us to address those. I go through my ward every other week and sometimes more frequently, look at properties, and make requests to the Inspections Department to go to these properties to investigate it, to resolve it, and to pursue whatever course of action we are allowed to take under our current ordinances. I do that every two weeks. Rod and his folks are constantly being asked, I’ll speak for myself, to go to Ward 7 to do that, and they’ve done it effectively. And, I guess what I’m saying is if that’s not working in some of your wards, then I can’t speak to that. But, I know in my ward following current ordinances seems to be working quite well.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “That’s why I’m riding around the hill taking signs off of telephone poles. Really.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I can’t speak. I know what you mean.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “No, no really. That’s the truth. All these signs are on telephone poles. It’s illegal. Ok. And, after 24 hours I have a knife and I cut them off.”
Mayor Harris commented, “We do, we do have Code Officials that actually go into properties, and they can get into properties if they need to. If a property is, you know, doesn’t look so well on the outside and there’s code violations, he can get into the inside of the properties also. I mean, if this study passes that’s fine. I mean, we can do a study, but we already have a Code Department that I believe is doing their job now. And, now we’re duplicating services.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “The last point I’d like to make on this, I want to pick up on what Dave said and that is that it appears we have a tendency amongst some of us to micromanage departments. And, I think we’ve got to take a second look at ourselves in regards to that as well. You know, we have a City Manager form of government. It’s up to the City Manager to oversee the activities of the Department Heads and whatnot. And, if we have problems, we go to the City Manager, or with his permission we can go directly to the director. But, for us to get involved in the, in micromanagement of departments is again going down the wrong road, and I hope we can, we can rethink that. I hope we can have faith in people that are hired for the City to do their jobs. If they don’t do their jobs then we got to talk to the Mayor, and we’ve got to, as a group, we’ve got to come to closure as to what we think needs to be done with these individuals. That’s, that’s the proper chain of command that any successful runs, and we, we seem to think that we have our individual idea of how the world should run and that the department heads have seven people coming at them telling them to do things seven different ways. We got, again, picking up on what Councilman Dalrymple said, we’ve got to stop this stuff. Let them run their departments. Thank you.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “I’ll say one last thing. I know the last two ordinances that were passed. I appreciate especially the last one was a 7/0 vote on what I call, I call it the filth ordinance to get rid of all the, the garbage and the high weeds and high grass and stuff like that, and it was a 7/0 vote. Everybody agreed to it. It was city wide. And, I would venture to think in my mind that that’s what the Code Officials are getting the complaints on. That ordinance came in and it’s City wide, 7/0 vote, we all agreed to it. So, they’re getting complaint about that. I don’t know that they’re actually, and I don’t know. They’ll have to tell me. I don’t know that they’re actually getting phone calls or written complaints about housing stock. I know they’re getting complaints about the garbage and high weeds and grass. And, the other thing was the sidewalks and retaining walls. If you go throughout Ward 4 you’ll see that there’s actually a change. And, that’s because the Code Officials went out and did what they, what they said they would do. And, I appreciate them for doing that. It’s a big change coming around, and I don’t want it to stop. I don’t, you know we get this train going, I don’t want it to stop because somebody else yelled at me. I don’t care if they yell at us. I don’t care if they come to my home. I don’t care what they do. If I made the decision, I have to stick by it.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “One more thing. We did pass the ordinance for weeds and it was 7/0. The same thing with this 1569. This should have been city wide and this should have been the same thing.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Then why didn’t Councilmembers amend it that night to say city wide.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “I did, I mean, I said it, but I didn’t amend it. I didn’t amend it, but I said it.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Nobody amended it. So, it was a 5/2 vote to pass it.”
Councilmember Jones commented, “I don’t agree with it but…”
Mayor Harris commented, “Ok, can we get a roll call vote please?”
Councilmember Ash commented, “What are we voting on?”
LAUGHTER
Mr. Maher commented, “We had multiple comments, but we didn’t have any amendments, so we need a…”
Mayor Harris commented, “We need a roll call vote.”
Mr. Maher commented, “Exactly.”
ROLL CALL VOTE
Councilman Miller Yes Councilman Marsh Yes Councilman Jones Yes Councilman Ash Yes Councilman Kondik Yes Councilman Fijewski No Councilman Dalrymple Yes
The motion passed by majority, 6/1.
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Does that now mean that 1569 is stayed…?”
Mayor Harris commented, “We’re putting together a task force.”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “And, it’s stayed?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yes.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Yes.”
Resolution for city council to agree to not discuss matters presented within an executive session.
Motion was made by Councilmember Ash, second by Councilmember Jones.
Councilmember Ash commented, “Mayor, the reason that I asked for that ordinance or that resolution to be put in there, I really believe when we go back in that room and we have the attorney with us, that everything that’s said in there is an attorney/client privilege. And, for us to come out here and blurt out to whomever what’s going on when we discussed things back there I think is just improper. It may not be illegal, but I think it’s improper. And, I think the last time we had a discussion in executive session it got out to the, to the general public and we had some comments and some problems because of it. Now, I’m asking this Council to be gentlemen about it. Go behind closed doors and when we discuss it, if the City Attorney is there, it is attorney/client privilege. That’s why I put that in.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you Councilman. Any other questions or comments?”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “I got one. I’m surprised that we never had an ordinance that stated that we weren’t supposed to talk about it. I thought it was just common law that we just didn’t do it.”
Mayor Harris commented, “I believe it is just a shake, a hand shake between fellow Councilmen not to speak about it.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “And, I just believe that the fourteen years that I’ve been around, yea, I know that I’ve been called on the carpet about saying something out of executive session only to say that it was not true to defend myself. And, I know for a fact that in fourteen years that, yea, it’s been done, but I’m very surprised that we never had an ordinance. I just thought that it was just your character and your stature that this was upheld. And, I believe that, I can’t say that, but I believe that we all have abided by it. I mean, I’m going to vote for it because I never knew we had an ordinance, but I’m just surprised.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I just want a clarification from legal counsel. I, like George, thought that inherently going into executive session was protected and it was as, I don’t know, not by City Charter, I just thought, I apologize for my ignorance, but I thought that it was just known that it was treated (unintelligible). Is that obviously not the case?”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “What you believe, what you believe to be true and what is true are two different things.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I agree with that.”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Realistically, what we say in executive session shouldn’t leave executive session. The problem with it is, is there are people who believe that sometimes what happens in executive session does leave executive session. I can only say from a legal stand, standpoint, the minute you say something outside of executive session, it’s no longer protected, and we open ourselves up to some serious problems. The other part of it is, if you don’t, if you think that someone’s saying something when you’re in executive session outside of it, you’re going to be reserved as to what you say in executive session, and that’s not what executive session is for. So, yes, we’re passing a resolution that shouldn’t need to be passed.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “So, yea, what happens if you get caught? What do you do, fire us?”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “What’s the penalty?”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “No. There is no penalty.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “There is no penalty?”
Councilmember Ash commented, “I’ll just call you out on Council floor. That’s all. If I know for sure that you did it, after, if this is passed, I will call you out on Council floor and embarrass you in front of everybody.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “And we don’t, we all don’t have that right now that if somebody finds out that somebody says something after that we’re going to embarrass them on Council floor?”
Mayor Harris commented, “No.”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Let’s put it in there.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Is that what it is?”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “Let’s put that verbiage in there.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Mayor is that what this is all about?”
Mayor Harris commented, “I don’t think that would be a good idea.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “I remember. I got to tell this story. I got to tell this story. And, I gotta go. I gotta tell this story. Father, father, you’re going to love this. This is probably, in fact, George Ash, you were there. Vince Azzarello brought us all to executive session because St. Paul’s was having a fish fry, and the volunteer firemen would go down and they would help, and they would take the fish and deliver it to homes. And, Azzarello took us into executive session and says, ‘Hey guys, there’s a liability there. You know, we can’t do it.’ And, I’m like oh man. I said, ‘What do we do.’ I said, ‘That’s my church. That’s, you know, fundraiser. So, what do we do?’ Well, you can’t do it. Well, if you’re not allowed to do, you’re not allowed to do it. I’m like, oh man, that’s my church. ‘Well, I’m going to put a stop to it,’ Azzarello said. Ok, fine. Council’s over maybe eight, nine o’clock. We get done. We go out to eat. I go home at ten thirty. At a quarter to eleven the same night I get a phone call from a volunteer. Who in the hell, what do you think you are, just yelling and screaming. I’m like, whoa, we did this in the executive session. Somebody in executive session had told a volunteer and they, and yea, so.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “I just want to make one final point on this. Give me a fish sandwich. Will you George?”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “To go?”
LAUGHTER
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Look, if currently there’s no stipulation that prevents Council from doing this other than the wrath of George Ash coming down on them and embarrassing them in public, by the pass, passing of this resolution, we have the same set of events. You’re telling me that there’s nothing legally binding, and the only thing we’re going to potentially have as a penalty is again being embarrassed by some member of our peer group. Now, so to me, why pass a resolution to do nothing more than what we already have? I’m, I mean understand the motivation and I support the motivation…”
Councilmember Ash commented, “Let me explain to why…”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Good intentions going the wrong way.”
Councilmember Ash commented, “I put this in there because just last year I was deposed for a lawsuit that happened many years ago. And, when I was on Council, and since I was the Councilman, I had to go in front of the judge and set there and start to answer questions. And, everything that they were asking me was in executive session. So, finally I just turned to the judge and I said unless the Court orders me to answer these questions, I’m not going to do it, because everything that they’re asking me was in executive session. And, as far as I’m concerned it’s attorney/client privilege. And, the judge looked at me and said, ‘You’re correct. You don’t have to answer them.’ I want to make sure this Council, the only reason this is put in, I think it’s a joke too. I don’t think we should have to do it. But, there’s some members of this Council that don’t understand that what’s said in there is client, attorney/client privilege. And, that’s why I put it out. If you remember correctly, the last executive session we had, all of a sudden we got letters from Mr. Moore saying he’s going run to court because he thought we did something wrong that was behind closed doors, and he came out with a whole bunch of letters to us saying that something that we did back there, that we may or may not have done, that one of you told him. I don’t know which one told you, told him, but I don’t like the fact. That’s why I want everybody to understand it’s attorney/client privilege, and if you understand that, I’ll pull this resolution. I don’t have a problem with it. It’s only a resolution. There is no real binding to it.”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “I think we should just have a reminder to everybody that what happens in executive session stays in executive session.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Let’s just call it Vegas and have it over with. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Item five, let’s take a vote.”
The motion carried by majority, 7/0.
Mayor Harris commented, “Before we adjourn, I’d like to say something. You know, with the rental, with the rental registration and the different ordinances that we passed and stuff and we sent code officials on different paths, and sometimes they don’t know what path to take because they don’t what’s going to happen the following month in the Council chambers. But, I, I would like to say, I would like to thank Rod Rosnick and the code officials because you guys have been doing a great job by what we’ve been wanting you to do. There’s been citations out there issued. People are finally cleaning up Ward 4. I took a drive through there yesterday to actually look at one my rental properties, and there’s a lot of yellow tape, red tape around sidewalks. People are fixing things up down there. They’re cutting their grass. Garbage is being cleaned up. So, you guys are doing a great job. I just wanted to thank you. Also, before we adjourn, we have some department heads here. Would you guys like to make any comments or anybody here would like to ask any questions since they did come. No?”
Mr. Brown commented, “Mayor, I put a, I put a contract out for the patch mobile. I think it’s a great item, and Councilman Marsh has visited with the demo that we did on Weirton Heights, and Potomac. We did two patches, and there’s been a lot of rain, and the patches are still there. There’s been a lot of heavy traffic. One’s on Vista and one’s on Potomac.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Are you going to do another demo again?”
Mr. Brown commented, “We’ll do another demo?”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Can you give me like 24 hours? Can you give me like a 24 hour notice?”
Mr. Brown commented, “It’s hard to pin him down Councilman, but I’ll try.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “They called me at 8:00 for a 9:30.”
Mr. Brown commented, “I did alert everybody.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “At 9:00 for 9:30.”
Mr. Brown commented, “Ok.”
Councilmember Dalrymple commented, “I got the perfect place for your demonstration.”
Mr. Brown commented, “Ok. We’ll only do one or two.”
Mr. DuFour commented, “Nice try John. We’ll have to put it in the budgetary process however. But, it’s good.”
LAUGHTER
Mr. Brown commented, “I’m looking at 09, 010.”
Mr. DuFour commented, “Yes.”
Mr. Brown commented, “I’m looking at that budget. But, I appreciate your input back to me, and I really think it’s a great machine.”
Mayor Harris commented, “When are we going to start paving John? Maybe Gio can put it in the paper.”
Mr. Brown commented, “They’re supposed to come into town the 17th of May and get our paving started. It’ll be mill and pave.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Any other comments for any of the department heads.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Not for the departments. I have a comment to my colleagues. I mentioned to the Mayor yesterday. Maybe for our next meeting, is there a clean up day in, like a general clean up day in May that we have?”
Mr. DuFour commented, “There was the April one.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “No. I don’t mean, I don’t mean for, you know, leaving stuff out on the curb. I just meant a general clean up day. But, I mentioned to the Mayor to think about maybe having a special day in May, a special Saturday or something that we designate ‘Clean Your Sidewalk Day.’ If you go through a lot of the areas, particularly the main drags along Pennsylvania Avenue and Culler Road, Colliers Way, etc. I mean, the side, particularly Pennsylvania Avenue coming up the hill. The property there is, I mean the sidewalks are just atrocious. And, the reason I suggest it is because I went to one of the property owners in my ward, and they contended that the sidewalks belonged to the City, that they were not responsible for them. Clearly, after talking with Gary, we, as you all I’m sure are aware, we have an ordinance that says that the property owner is responsible for the sidewalks. So, before we go out and start giving people violations for the fact that they’ve got an inch and a half of cinders on their, on their sidewalk, maybe we could have a special designated day within the City and ask everybody to clean their sidewalks. And, then, if we, if after that fact they don’t do it, then we could take appropriate action.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Brenda, you want to talk about our clean up twice a year that we do?”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Maybe, that’s what I’m thinking of.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Yea.”
Councilmember Kondik commented, “Maybe that’s what I’m thinking of.”
Ms. Mull commented, “Yea. Usually the Chamber works with the City. We’ve been doing…”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Is it in May usually?”
Ms. Mull commented, “It’s usually after you do your city wide clean up. The weather just hasn’t been real…”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “Ok. I guess what I’m…the person that owned a large segment of property in my ward, you know, contended that they weren’t responsible for it. I think we need to run something maybe in the paper if nothing else if you don’t want to make a special day to do that. I throw out for your consideration that at a minimum we re-publicize the ordinance and let people know that they’re responsible for cleaning their sidewalks. We’ve got grass growing up. We’ve got an inch of debris on the sidewalks and it’s, to say it’s unsightly is putting it mildly. And, just think about it. Maybe we can talk about it and decide at the next meeting we want to do something. That’s all.”
Mayor Harris commented, “In July and August of last year we did have individuals sweeping the sidewalks of downtown, all the Main Street, Cove Road and all that. And, we did hear the same thing. A lot of business owners thought that they didn’t own the sidewalk that the City did. So, since Brenda’s here, maybe she could send out and email to some of her Chamber members letting them know that they are responsible for the sidewalks also.”
Ms. Mull commented, “Can we do, if we do this program, can we do it so that we may sweep the sidewalks into the street?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yes.”
Ms. Mull commented, “It’s usually done for a week. Then the street sweeper will come by and…”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yea. We just need to make sure you call us and let us know. We’ll get a hold of John so that way he can have his guys up there.”
Mr. DuFour commented, “Our subject today has been reinvention. We’re reinventing again. You had a successful program we have been able to run annually with the Chamber. I think we should use that as our basis. We’ve incorporated public works. High school and community groups have joined in that which is fine. And, I think maybe Brenda, maybe get with Millicent or whomever, (unintelligible) department heads as well to those meetings for clean up and begin that process and lock in the date, and let them come back to us all here.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “But, Gary, I throw out to your consideration and the Mayor’s that I think we need to do a reeducation to the community…”
Mr. DuFour commented, “I agree.”
Councilmember Fijewski commented, “…of ownership and responsibility for sidewalks.”
Mr. DuFour commented, “I agree. I agree with that.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you Councilman. Any other comments before we adjourn?”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “If each Councilman, if you get five free minutes, just to try to give me a call so I can at least talk to you guys each individually about the depositions.”
Motion to adjourn was made by Councilmember Kondik, second by Councilmember Fijewski.
Motion carried by majority, 7/0.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business before this April 30, 2008 special session of the Weirton City Council the meeting was adjourned after the closing prayer.
|