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CITY OF WEIRTON
PUBLIC HEARING
DECEMBER 10, 2007 6:30 P. M.
PUBLIC COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO TOWING ORDINANCE
A public hearing for the City of Weirton, Hancock and Brooke Counties, West Virginia was held on December 10, 2007 at 6:30 P. M. in the Rose Dining Room of the Millsop Community Center to accept citizen’s comments regarding rules and regulations for towing and the related rotation list for the City of Weirton and affiliated 9-1-1 services.
Those present included citizens, business owners and employees, residents and nonresidents of the City of Weirton of both Hancock and Brooke Counties and also the Honorable Mayor Mark Harris, Councilman Ronnie Jones, Councilman Harold Miller, Councilman Fred Marsh, Councilman George Ash, Councilman George Kondik, Councilman David Dalrymple, Councilman Max Fijewski, City Attorney Vincent Gurrera, City Clerk Thomas J. Maher, Jr. and other City Department Heads and Officials.
Mr. Maher opened the session for Public Comments.
Mr. Ralph Barone 1045 Barone Drive
This ordinance amounts to (unintelligible). One reason being that the code used to regulate the Public Service Commission very highly. In other words, you used to have to have to pay a high (unintelligible). The rates (unintelligible) and they had the (unintelligible) etc., etc., etc. Apparently, (unintelligible), but they’ve done away with a lot of that. So, here again now, we come and the City wants to add to it. We want to, we want to put in heavy duty service. You know, one of these trucks must cost a half a million dollars. Now, we’ve (unintelligible). You got to have one that (unintelligible). I mean, here’s a poor young man that wants to start up a towing business. How can he afford a half a million dollar truck to start up with? Not only that, let’s go to the smaller trucks. A four-wheel wrecker, especially a flat bed probably costs $150,000.00 to start with. So, I feel that this, this ordinance or any of the old rotation, the rotation ordinance should be (unintelligible) done away with. Let’s have free enterprise. That’s what we, that’s what the one page Mayor Harris said. Let’s help business out. This isn’t helping business. It’s restricting. In fact, (unintelligible) restrain the (unintelligible). I’d like to have a wrecker. But, I couldn’t do it, (unintelligible). I feel that the ordinance is too strong and should be done away with. Thank you.”
APPLAUSE
Arthur Recht (Representing Greene’s Towing)
Mr. Recht commented, “I’ll address this mainly to the Council members who may have the ordinance in front of them. Whoever drafted this ordinance followed an ordinance out of Pennsylvania almost word for word, and I don’t know who drafted it or who it was given to to draft, except if you would have your ordinance in front of you, under Section D…”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Those have been changed Mr. Recht.”
Mr. Recht commented, “Well, let me read it. It may have been changed. It said Title 67 of which don’t have it. But, aside from that, on Page 2, 4.15, I want to read that to you. An emergency towing service which possesses the equipment required to perform emergency towing of vehicles weighing in excess of 17,000 pounds including but not limited to two heavy duty wreckers. OK. That’s fine. And, then they add one sentence. One of which must be a rotator with at least a 40 ton winching cap. That’s the only change. If you read the ordinance from which this was copied you’ll find that that sentence is the only change which is very interesting, because we only have one towing service in town that has a rotator. Now, what does that mean? That means we’re coming close to having a monopoly, because the rotator costs $530,000, and it weighs 82,000 pounds. And, in effect, it’s a crane. Now, Greene’s Towing, whom I represent, in three years has never had a call which requires a rotator, which is amazing. Also, in the three years, they’ve never had an accident with the equipment they’ve had towing the big trucks. So, I admit that there may be a (unintelligible) when a crane or a rotator must be necessary. And, if that were to happen, we’d be all right because we have one that has a rotator. But, to require the other two, because we have three, to require the other two to make that investment for a non-producing item is asking too much of the present people that do our towing. We also have a problem with the fact that this item that was brought up for second reading, or second hearing, tonight, the party that I represent, Greene, was never notified of the first hearing. They were still going on the fact that they had a set of rules that they were to follow and unless they read the paper, excuse me they did get a notice of the second, and that notice was mailed out November 26th for the December 10th hearing which was the second hearing. Gentlemen, I’m sure that everything that is done is done for a good reason. If it can be shown to the Council or to the Mayor that this is a requirement that should be met, that’s one thing. If it’s being done to limit the competition of the other two, that’s another, and I would ask that if you want to pass this which I might say has some good points. The Mayor had written an article for the paper saying that there had to be enough insurance, that there had to be fair charging. Everything else in this new ordinance can be met by the present holder of one of the franchises in that stock.”
Councilman Ash commented, “Can I ask Mr. Recht a question please?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Certainly.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yes. Go ahead.”
Councilman Ash commented, “You said that that’s the only sentence that was changed. You said one of which must be rotated with at least a 40 ton winching cap. Did you, had that been changed or was that added?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Added.”
Councilman Ash commented, “It was added to the ordinance. OK. So, there’s no changes that…”
Mr. Recht commented, “No. It was never in the…”
Councilman Ash commented, “The other part, wait a minute. The original that was out of Pennsylvania. Do you agree?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Pardon me.”
Councilman Ash commented, “The original ordinance was out of Pennsylvania?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Yes, sir. I have it.”
Councilman Ash commented, “So, this part was the only part that was added to the original ordinance?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Well, I don’t want to hold myself to anything, exactly that, but it was the pertinent part.”
Councilman Ash commented, “The second question I have is if you would happen to poll your client and they knew (unintelligible), would he charge, would your client charge for being there if we went ahead and called the other company who did have the new vehicle? You might have to use a double fee for the client (unintelligible) picking the truck or whatever up.”
Mr. Recht commented, “That’s mentioned in the newspaper article as to one of the yields. And, I can speak for my client. If he cannot perform even though he was called, he would not charge. Now, where you’d double charge which the Mayor alluded to.”
Councilman Kondik commented, “Mr. Recht, if I can, your client did call me. We did talk about it. And, he told me that if it was mandated that we had to have a rotor cup, that he would go out and buy one. And, I never knew what a rotor was until Mr. Greene showed or Mr.…”
Mr. Recht commented, “I think the language my client…”
Councilman Kondik commented, “He fully showed me, he fully showed me what it was. And, when he called me a couple months, a couple weeks ago, I asked him about that, and he said if I have to have one, I’ll go out and buy one.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I don’t know if he was one of the partners you talked to.”
Councilman Kondik commented, “Yes.”
Mr. Recht commented, “If he was aware that the cost was $530,000.00 and if he was aware that in three years they’d never had the use of one, or the need of one.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Mr. Recht, I also would like to ask you a question. If, which has happened in the past, the coils would fall off of the tractor trailer, or a tractor trailer would tip over, or a tractor trailer would tip over on a vehicle where someone was inside it, can one of those tow trucks pick that coil up? Can one of those tow trucks move that vehicle from it being overturned to save a life? That’s what we’re looking at as far as a liability issue. The liability issue of the City is we put ourselves into this position. Now, it’s time to make sure that we’re not held liable with putting somebody out there with the wrong equipment.”
Mr. Recht commented, “If you’ll let me ask him, since I’m not an expert on that, I’d appreciate it. Do you want to come up and answer that?”
Mr. Greene commented, “Yes. We can pick up any coil with our wrecker as you can pick up with a rotary. The only think different is you can turn the boom. That’s all. I mean, all we’ve got to do is position our trucks the right way. We have 50,000 pound coils we’ve picked up all the time.”
Mayor Harris commented, “What’s your tow truck rated at? Because I thought the smaller tow trucks were like 20 some thousand pounds to pick a coil.”
Mr. Greene commented, “We’ve got a 45 ton, a 35 ton and a 40 ton. So, it’ll pick, our 40 ton will pick up 90,000 pounds.”
Mr. Recht commented, “And, I understand they just bought a new 330,000 vehicle.”
Mayor Harris commented, “OK. Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “Is that correct?”
Councilman Kondik commented, “Their registered and licensed in West Virginia?”
Mr. Greene commented, “Yes, we are.”
Councilman Kondik commented, “All of the, your heavy duty vehicle is?”
Mayor Harris commented, “The big truck?”
Mr. Greene commented, “It’s got an apportion plate. It’s got Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia.”
Mr. Recht commented, “And, the proof’s here that...”
Mr. Greene commented, “We’ve got cab cards for every truck we own.”
Councilman Kondik commented, “What’s a cab card?”
Mr. Greene commented, “A cab card is for you to pick up a car or truck in the state of West Virginia and drop it off in the state of West Virginia. It’s through the PUC.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Maybe we’re being told wrong on some of the issues, but with apportion plates, that’s to run through the states, but that’s not to have that truck reside in that specific state.”
Mr. Greene commented, “Well, we…”
Mr. Recht commented, “We got a letter…”
Mayor Harris commented, “It’s state law.”
Councilman Marsh commented, “What state is that apportioned plate taken from?”
Mr. Greene commented, “It’s Pennsylvania, of course…”
Councilman Marsh commented, “Then it’s not a West Virginia plate. You can bring that truck to West Virginia, but it is not a West Virginia plate.”
Mr. Greene commented, “Correct.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I have a letter here that says it’s approved by our PUC, if you’d like to see it.”
Councilman Marsh commented, “I’m just stating the fact that there’s (unintelligible) Pennsylvania laws, because that’s where it’s plated.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I can also tell Council that we have more than double the anticipated insurance coverage. And, I brought that with me also.”
Mayor Harris commented, “That’s good. Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “And that PSC letter, I’ll be glad to distribute that.”
Mayor Harris commented, “With the apportioned plates then, what we’re getting at is for, what we’re being told by the state is that vehicle can travel through any states. That’s fine with apportioned plates. But, it just cannot reside in that place, in that state. It has to reside in Pennsylvania. Is that true?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Not that we know of.”
Mr. Greene commented, “Not that we know. We weren’t aware of this before.”
Mr. Recht commented, “We’ve been approved by the PUC.”
Mayor Harris commented, “OK. Thank you.”
Mr. Greene commented, “I mean, Nick’s too, I mean, he’s got runs of Ohio plates on his big wrecker. On the rotary, he’s got Ohio plates.”
Mr. Recht commented, “And, I might say, thank you, I might say that the other issues in this ordinance which are pretty standard from the old ordinance, I have no objection to them. And, so if the Council will take into consideration that one change we would appreciate it.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “Thank you.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Mr. Mayor, just to make a distinction for everyone to appreciate. This issue that’s being discussed has nothing to do with preventing someone from doing business in the City of Weirton. It has to do with whether or not they’d be, they’re put on a call-out list. So, for the general public to understand that, this is not to say that people can and can not do business in the City of Weirton if they don’t have these things. It just says that they have to have this if they want to be on the call-out list. Is that an appropriate distinction Mr. Recht?”
Mr. Recht commented, “Well, in order to haul or tow in the City of Weirton, you have to be on the list. That’s in order to do business.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “No sir, I don’t agree with that.’
Mayor Harris commented, “No, it is not.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I was told that you had to be on the list to be called.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “No, sir.”
Mayor Harris commented, “No. If you broke down out here you can call any wrecker you want. But, if you tie up our city road or state road, then…”
Mr. Gurrera commented, “Or, if the car needs to be impounded for D.U.I or something like that.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Then, that’s…”
Mr. Recht commented, “I stand corrected if that’s…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I just was trying to make a distinction sir. That’s all. Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I stand corrected.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “I can go into the article that you wrote. I think I’ve covered it.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yes. Thank you.”
Mr. Recht commented, “Thank you very much for your time.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you.”
Mike Clayton PO Box 2913 Clayton’s Gas & Garage
Mr. Clayton commented, “The problem I’ve got, a lot of you guys know me, I’m the smallest towing business in town. When I first looked over this policy, or set of requirements, I looked at it and, to me, it looks like it’s in violation of the anti-trust laws. The requirements require, they’re asking whereas Mr. Recht said a rotator. That’s a highly specialized piece of equipment. I don’t thing legally it can tow anything down the highway. So, if you were to require that particular piece of equipment for the city rotation it would be used just for basically for recovery issues. And, if that is true, then well if that would enable if somebody was able to buy a rotator to do I believe it’s less than 1% of the calls we have in the city for big truck accidents. OK. Out of all the calls that are made it’s less than 1%. At least that’s the figures that were presented to me a few years back, and I don’t think it’s changed that much. But, that would enable that person if they was able to go out and buy that truck for $500,000.00, they would then be able to approach the PSC for an extremely high rate for the use of the rotator because that vehicle was required to be on the city rotation. And if they bought that vehicle then they would be able to show that that was only used for the city rotations and as a requirement issue, not something that somebody’s already had to make their job easier. And, they would be able to get an ungodly hourly rate, and I’m thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500.00 an hour, ok, would be the figure that’s thrown out to me by an accountant. OK. And, that’s a huge, huge increase on the hourly rate as opposed to what some of the other trucks are using, and I’m understanding some of them are at least $600.00 an hour. OK. And, that’s a pretty high rate too, but I’m not saying it’s not justified. But, to have that mandated as far as the specialty piece of equipment for less than 1 ½ % of the towing and recovery efforts within the city limits I think would be a little (unintelligible) than that in itself. And, as Mr. Recht also said it looks though that the policy was written to create a monopoly, because it would eliminate two of the other towing businesses, mine being one of them. The issue that I have that particularly pertains to myself are the issue of light duty areas. They have a light duty wrecker that supposed to have a GVW, or a, I mean a 6,000 pound wheel load with a 10,000 pound (unintelligible). None of the manufacturers that I know of have a 6,000 pound wheel load for a light duty truck. That’s a medium duty requirement, and none of them make a 6,000 pound (unintelligible) truck that I know of. There’s also, they raised the GVW to 11,000 pounds for a 1 ton wrecker flatbed which the state requirement is 10,000 GVW package.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I’m sorry. How much sir? How much was that sir. I’m sorry.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “10,000 GVW package.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK, for the state requirements, and I meet that requirement. And, I’d like to know what advantage to the City is to have an 11,000 GVW package flat bed. Can you answer me that question?”
Mayor Harris commented, “The things that we pulled out of Pennsylvania was that Pennsylvania was asking the same issues and Greene’s were towing in Pennsylvania what was the, to me it didn’t sound like it was a problem with the weight issue, because with all the towing, the flatbeds were all the same weight.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, to be perfectly honest, this is the State of West Virginia, not the State of Pennsylvania.”
Mayor Harris commented, “But, what’s fair in Pennsylvania should be fair in West Virginia also.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “That’s not necessarily true, because if you want to reverse that situation, what’s fair in West Virginia would be fair in Pennsylvania also. Would that not be true?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Which is law.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK. And, the State of West Virginia has a regulatory authority called the Public Service Commission which we fall under, ok. The State of Pennsylvania does not have that. So, these requirements were drawn up by their state police. Where they got their information and their requirements I have no idea. But, I know I have to follow the state regulations, and I’m already meeting those regulations. There’s also a thing in here about, somebody said something about minimum insurance requirements. That’s what we’re required to have. Ok. And, if we have the minimum then we meet the requirements for the state.”
Mayor Harris commented, “So, the minimum is the state requirement. We’re not asking you to follow the state. We’re asking you to follow the city. Again, the city is liable to have you tow their vehicles. If I tell you that you need to tow a vehicle, you need to have the proper insurance at your facility, so if something would happen to that vehicle it wouldn’t come back to the city.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, is the city paying the storage bill?”
Mayor Harris commented, “No.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, then how are you responsible for it?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Because we told the customer that he had, that gentlemen or that lady had to have you tow that vehicle. When we tell somebody what they have to do, then some sort of liability comes back to the city when something happens in your facility if it’s not fenced in or if it’s not properly insured.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Have we had an instance where this has taken place?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Actually, all I have, I have a lot of different instances, but I’m giving it to the city attorney to look at first.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Mr. Clayton. Mr. Clayton, if I could make the distinction again.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Yes, sir.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “The, your question about can the City of Weirton have a requirement that is greater than or different than the PUC. I think that’s what I’m hearing you say. Is that something you don’t think we should do? Now, let’s make a distinction.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I’m asking…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Let me…”
Mr. Clayton commented, “…what’s the advantage?”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I, that’s a good question. The only distinction I’m trying to make sir is let’s go back to the distinction I made before you spoke. The city can create a criteria for the call out list which is not a PUC governed item. It is the city that’s creating a call out list. So, we, as a city, have the capability of having different criteria than the state. I’m not saying I’m for or against what the criteria may or may not be, but I just want to make that distinction.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I think you’re wrong in one of the statements that you made.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “OK.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Because, in order to be on a rotation list you have to meet all of the Public Service requirements.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Is there anything that says you can’t have additional ones?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “No. You may increase them.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “That’s my point.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “But, what I’m saying is why would you create a policy unless you have a need for it.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I understand your point sir.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “That’s…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I’m trying to just make it clear thought that there are the criteria that we’re looking at is different than what the PUC may be looking at. Would you agree with that Mr. Clayton.?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, yes I do understand you do have the opportunity to.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “But, then if you look at the whole thing as an issue, ok, we’re requiring a rotator. Ok, and that’s eliminating Greene’s Towing, ok, and it also eliminates myself. OK. And, then we’re looking again, we’re looking at the state requirements where I meet the state requirements ok with the 10,000 GVW ok and the wheel lift. Yes, I meet those requirements and then if I have to up these, I either have to buy new equipment or I’m eliminated off and I’m already meeting the state requirements which they say should fulfill this. OK.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I understand your point.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “So, I look at the whole thing in that perspective and it looks like it’s designed to create a monopoly for one person. There’s three towing companies here. Two of them don’t meet the requirements. The other one does. That’s pretty simple to me. I mean now if you can show there was a need and a necessity for upping the GVW package to 11,000, if there was some reason somewhere somehow that that caused a problem for the city, I could understand it. I really could. But, as Mr. Recht tried to say, there have been plenty of recoveries done on heavy duty recoveries. It’s great (unintelligible). Now, I must admit that a rotator, that’s, as the kids say today, that’s the bomb, that’s the thing to have. It does make your job easier. But, it is not necessary to have that. Those same recoveries have been done, as you said, life threatening issue. Those same issues had been covered over the years with a straight stick wrecker. They’ve saved plenty of lives with a straight stick wrecker. There was no other choice. OK. And, yes, you have a choice now. But, is it worth making somebody pay $500,000.00 for a piece of equipment for less than 1% of the calls. And, have we had a life threatening issue in this town where a rotator was necessary?”
Mayor Harris commented, “I was told we did.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I don’t know that. OK. But, you’re telling me that you know that a straight stick wrecker couldn’t handle the deal.”
Mayor Harris commented, “We don’t know that. All I know is the next gentlemen that’s speaking will let us know about a life threatening injury.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK. I’m not saying that it didn’t happen. It’s not one that I know of. But, is it necessary? And, as I said, it looks to me as though it’s designed to create a monopoly. And, it would eliminate me and that doesn’t make me real happy.” And, also, I see here at the beginning of your policy. It says pursuant to state code, ok, state code, State Senate Bill 461, ok, is the requirements for the rotation, and that’s regulated by the state. The dispatching of towing service for emergency vehicles and other exceptions. OK. And, it says once every three years you are to review the towing policy, and it says that that has to be done between the county commissioners or the ruling municipality, whoever runs the 9-1-1 emergency service. And, you’re supposed to have the consultation between all the towing companies, law enforcement and dispatch to create a policy that is, that is prompt, fair and equitable to all parties involved. I haven’t ever been asked to any meeting towards equipment requirements or policy. I don’t know if Greene’s has. And, I wasn’t, as Mr. Recht said, I wasn’t notified of the first hearing either in the first meeting. I don’t think you guys went about this the correct way.”
Mayor Harris commented, “By law, the state, putting it in the newspaper is the same.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, if you don’t get the paper, I mean, you know, to tell you the truth, if you’re really concerned about doing it, it says we’re supposed to have a meeting and discuss this, not decide your policy and then bring it to vote on it.”
Mayor Harris commented, “We are at this time. We are having a meeting with you at this time.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I don’t see where it’s being discussed. I think it’s where you’ve decided some issues and we have the right to make a complaint or to disagree or agree. That’s not a meeting with discussion if you ask me.”
Councilman Ash commented, “I’d like to ask you the same question I asked Mr. Recht. If you’re called out and you can’t handle the job, are you going to charge somebody if they, if another tow company has to come out?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “It depends if I do any work or not. If I do work I will charge for it.”
Councilman Ash commented, “(Unintelligible), without work. Am I right?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “That is correct.”
Mayor Harris commented, “You have never been paid for a call that was yours that you couldn’t handle.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “No sir.”
Mayor Harris commented, “You never got any money?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Never got any money from who sir?”
Mayor Harris commented, “You’ve never been paid at all?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “From who sir?”
Mayor Harris commented, “From whoever.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “From who? I mean, you, you, I mean, are we talking about a customer? You’re talking about somebody that had an accident, and I showed up and I couldn’t handle the job. I called somebody. Are you asking, did I bill that customer? No, sir, I did not. The only time I’ve ever billed a customer is when I’ve done work. Now, I am probably the only person here that knows that I have subcontracted work. OK. I don’t know if the general public, but I do. I have to sub-contract the bigger stuff. OK. Because I was required to by the city, and I have an agreement in a contract with one of the other towing companies here in town and at his request we, we, we did a contract. That’s what he wanted, because he wanted to control the large truck towing in the city. That was his (unintelligible). So, we have an agreement, but that agreement is between him and me, not with any customers or the city or any (unintelligible) individual. If I bill a customer, I have billed I think once I know for sure possibly twice before hand when he’s given me a bill, I billed the customer and I billed according to my tariff where the Public Service Commission has forced me, and I repeat forced me to put on my tariff if there’s any equipment I need for a recovery that I do not possess I am entitled to recover my expenses plus 20% and that’s an act of doing business I was forced to pay. And, I have used it one time.”
Mayor Harris commented, “But, you have never used a vehicle as far as your flat bed, you’ve never had a problem where your flatbed is broke down and you couldn’t make the tow so you made a phone call and the guy received $50.00.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “No. Never.”
Mayor Harris commented, “So, you never get paid for…”
Mr. Clayton commented, “If my flatbed broke down, there have been two or three occasions where my trucks broke down, being a small operator, I’ve turned my complete entire rotation over to the person I had my agreement with, without any reimbursement. And, if you do, and if they say I haven’t reimbursed them I’d like to see the proof. Because, I’m assuming that you’re getting around to something that you thinks happened.”
Mayor Harris commented, “OK. My last question at this time, are you doing everything legal and you’re following the ordinances of the state for rotation?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “To the best of my knowledge there may be, there may be a few things that I am overlooking, but if I’m not, in fact, if I have or have not, I don’t know. You can bring it to my attention and we’ll address it. That’s the best I can tell you.”
Mr. DuFour Commented, “Can I ask you about one please?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Sure.”
Mr. DuFour Commented, “According to the 2004 regulations of the towing service in that rotation, it is to have a street address. What is the street address of your business?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “P. O. Box 2913, just as it has been from the beginning.”
Mr. DuFour Commented, “So, you business is located at the post office.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Correct. It has been since before that, and as far as I’m concerned I’m grandfathered. Nobody’s ever mentioned anything to me about it. Anything else? Ok, now I have a couple more questions, ok. After reading this policy I see it’s divided into three categories, light, medium, and heavy duty towing. Is that correct? By making those three categories, how is that going to change the rotation process in the city of Weirton in the future?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Again, with the weight issues it’s a liability issue for the city.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I asked you how it’s going to change the rotation process.”
Mayor Harris commented, “It doesn’t change the rotation process. It only (unintelligible) the equipment for it.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “How are the calls going to be issued? That’s the question.”
Mayor Harris commented, “The calls?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Yes.”
Mayor Harris commented, “The calls go to, well actually they’re not calls. Actually the police show up at an accident and then they go and they make the calls. They make the call when they call dispatch.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “That’s right. According, what I’m saying is, according to the category here, those three point categories, light, medium and heavy. As it stands right now the wrecker on call gets the call. Am I correct? Is that how it’s worked right now, on a weekly basis? How is this, how is this going to, you’re dividing it in three categories. How is that going to affect the rotation process now? How are we going to decide who gets called?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Well, the way it’s written now is if you have the right equipment then we’re going to call you out for the tow. Because, if, it’s a liability issue for the city. You will not get a call from the city if you don’t have the right equipment.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, um…”
Mayor Harris commented, “So, you’re not following the ordinances.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Since I was required in the beginning to sub this out, ok, to be on the city rotation, you’re now telling me that that contract, that sub-contract is no longer valid?”
Mayor Harris commented, “I didn’t tell you to sub-contract anything.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “The city did. The city government. Just because you took over it doesn’t change anything.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Well then anybody from the city could sub-contract it. If they did, it could be changed at any given time. I don’t think the officials at that time knew that sub-contracting might affect the pricing also.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Do you have a pricing issue?”
Mayor Harris commented, “Well, I think I do. I do actually, and I think we’re not getting to the point.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “The pricing issue needs to be discussed with the Public Service Commission because they are the people who regulate the prices, and that’s were that complaint needs to go sir. That’s not your problem. It’s not this Council’s problem. I have to abide by. I have to abide by the Public Service Commission’s ruling. That’s what I had to do to be on this rotation, and they are the ones who govern this. And, that’s why I don’t understand why the city wants to duplicate a service that’s already being done by taxpayer dollars. That’s an extra burden upon this city. It’s an extra burden upon the taxpayers, and I’m sure somewhere down the line it’s going to cost the taxpayers more money. It’s already, if the policy that was in effect was enforced I think we’d be better served. You can keep making policies and making laws to keep changing things if you want, but if you don’t enforce them it’s not going to do any good. That’s, I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s the deal right there. Now, we’re trying to change the requirements to manipulate the towing ordinance in the City of Weirton to where one man has the opportunity to control the towing inside the City of Weirton. And, I might remind you this was done once before.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Mr. Clayton, I just want to make a point. That’s not...your statement’s not entirely accurate. The 2004…”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I can’t hear you.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “You made a statement that the current policy’s in effect and everything was going well with it. I think the citizens need to understand that on, I think it was November 08, 2004, there was a ordinance passed in regards to people becoming eligible to be on the call list in the City of Weirton. All of the stipulations were indicated in that, what everyone had to do to be on that call list. For whatever reason and I wasn’t there in 2004 so I can’t speak to it, everybody who was in the city doing towing at that point in time was grandfathered and they therefore were not held to the standards of the ordinance that was passed. Is that not accurate?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I’m not sure.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Well, sure you know. Because, in that ordinance you and I spoke and you indicated to me that you were grandfathered. You indicated here that you were grandfathered. So, sure you know.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK. Now I’m understanding you.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “OK. Good. So, is it fair for the citizens to know that the quote current ordinance that is in place, the three current providers are not held to it in any way, shape or for because they were all grandfathered, that they didn’t have to meet any of those requirements? Fair?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Hmmm.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Fair.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you. So, when you say it’s working fine, it’s working fine because nobody’s following the ordinance.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “No, I said it would work fine if they were enforced, and to tell you the truth I don’t think there was a city ordinance passed. I think it was a resolution.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “All right.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “And, there is a difference if I’m, as I was told a resolution…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “My point is that everybody was grandfathered that was not required to meet the standards and criteria that was set up at that time. Is that fair?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I met the requirements when I signed on.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “You were given grandfather that you didn’t have to meet them. Is that fair? It’s ok. I’m fine with it.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Yes. That’s my opinion.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Yes. Ok. Good. It’s mine too. Thank you.”
Councilman Kondik commented, “Can you acknowledge, Dale Moore, who authored this four years ago?
Mr. Moore commented, “No one was grandfathered. The reason we made (unintelligible) is there were issues. There’s no grandfathering in the ordinance. If he told you that, he’s mistaken.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “We can address that.”
Mayor Harris commented, “One last thing…”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, again…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you. Thank you for the…”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Well, again, like I said, referring back to that state and statute on who had the right to do that. Thank you.”
Mayor Harris commented, “One more question for you.”
Mr. Clayton commented, “OK.”
Mayor Harris commented, “You said you didn’t charge anybody. I have something here from P.I.I. Recovery on Main Street on June 26, 2007. It says here Clayton charged $2,000.000 and $1,600.00 went to Nick’s Towing. Did you do any work that day?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “Yes, sir, I did.”
Mayor Harris commented, “What did you do?”
Mr. Clayton commented, “I’ll be, I labored, ok, and my truck was there for traffic control. And, I also hauled the scrap that was cut off of the coils on my flatbed up to Nick’s.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you.”
Nick Cosenza 119 Patterson Road Nick’s Auto Sales 1295 Cove Hill Road
Mr. Fahey commented, “Councilmen, indulge me. I’m Bill Fahey. I work for Nick. He has asked that I just make brief presentation, and trust me if you indulge me I’ll be more brief than Nick would be. It’s your satisfaction. I think you’re approaching this entirely long way being misled by vendors. The issue here is really service to the community and good citizenship. Nick provides that. Nick is a state of the art operation. He keeps his fleet in excellent condition. He buys all the best equipment that is available to (unintelligible) his ability to pay so that he can promptly and properly service the people when emergencies arise. If you use a rotator it may be more per hour but you may get it done far quicker than if you would try to fumble around with an old lift. You’re also being given a little bit of a shell game because representative of Greene’s are telling you, well, we’ve got this heavy duty this, we’ve got this heavy duty that, we’ve got this heavy duty. They’re, they got one truck that sets in West Virginia. For purposes of tax assessment they’re telling everybody else, no that’s all West Virginia property. We don’t use that here. Now they come before you and say we’ve got all this equipment accessible and available to us. But, if they got it it’s in Pennsylvania. That doesn’t help you in an emergency. Nick is good citizen. He pays personal and real property taxes, personal property as well as commercial property.
Tape Change
Mr. Fahey commented, “…for ¾ of the month, they cannot provide that service. And, if you want to see if that is the fact, check how much they pay in the wage tax. I think the last time it was, it was reviewed they only have one employee that they say is employed enough in West Virginia to pay your, your Weirton wage tax. Nick has seven full time employees that he pays the wage tax for. He is fully staffed, fully service and is a good citizen and prepared to offer the best service in emergency situations and clear things out as quickly as possible and respond as safely as any of the competitors can stack up. It’s wonderful to say that you’ve got, this should be open for anybody who can buy a truck and come in and do it, but they don’t make the commitment that they will respond in the proper and timely fashion when called out. They don’t make the commitment that they’ve got the 24 hour service. Nick does make that commitment, and Nick does have that kind of staffing and that kind of equipment on site all the time here paying the taxes. I could go into the Public Service Regulations which I don’t know are being followed in the instance of some of the vendors. We can go into the regulation by the Department of Motor Vehicles for proper registration of vehicles and full registration when vehicles are operated in multi states that I don’t think is being followed. We could do all kind of audits we wanted to, but if you cut straight to the chase, Nick provides the best service, state of the art service. He’s a good citizen. If you have any technical questions, he’s probably better to answer that than I am, but he couldn’t have said this in an hour.”
Councilman Ash commented, “In your book, do you have a rotator pictured?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes.”
Councilman Ash commented, “Can I see it please?”
Mr. Fahey commented, “Thank you gentlemen.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “It might not be an emergency, because they’re not requiring (unintelligible) up on the new highway. And, the radius (unintelligible) because they don’t have the right radius. All I’m asking is this to be a fair playing field. I’m not asking to put nobody out of business. I’m not asking for nothing more than to have everybody be on the same thing. The rotator is $145,000.00.”
Mr. Greene commented, “We’ll buy it. We’ll buy it now.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “I got it. Give me a check. He never showed up with a check. They say they’ll buy it but they never show up. A new flatbed is $54,000, not $120,000, ok. My opinion is. I’m not in it for the money. My daughter’s looking at taking over. If I could save one life, that’s what I want to do. That’s why I have the equipment I do. I pride myself on the equipment. I pride myself on everything I do, ok. They could run their mouth all they want. My rotator was $140,000. I got a book. I could show you a hundred of them, ok. That’s just the way it is. All right. Their truck is not even rated to pick up a 50,000 pound coil all the way out. I have (unintelligible). Mine is. They’re not. So, when you pick up a 50,000 pound coil with a 22,000 pound wrecker and the cable breaks and kills somebody is that a police officers of the City of Weirton or is that Greene’s because they’ve got it stretched to the limit. I’ve stretched limits before.”
Councilman Ash commented, “Those pictures you showed us. Is it in Weirton? Where is that located?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “That one was in Burgettstown. The guy got killed in Burgettstown, but I have plenty of them. There are plenty of them.”
Mayor Harris commented, “I was just told that they can pick up a, they pick up the coils.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Dangerous. You could do anything dangerously. I mean, it’s not rated it could pick up a coil. If they got to boom out to pick up a coil, they can’t do it safely. Who’s going to be liable? Terry said on his own thing, if I get the wrecker at the right angle. You got a guy under a truck. You can guarantee the right angle? Are you going to guarantee you’re going to back up to that truck at a right angle? Mark, I’ve been in it forever. There’s never a right angle, ok.”
Mr. Recht commented, “Question. How many…May I.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Yes, go ahead, sir.”
Mr. Recht commented, “In the past two years, how many times have you used the rotator, and can you substantiate…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “The Ohio State Patrol…”
Mr. Recht commented, “…and can you substantiate it?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes. I could call the Ohio State Patrol. I used it five times last week…”
Mr. Recht commented, “Where?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “(Unintelligible).”
Mr. Recht commented, “In Ohio?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes. They will not call anybody but a rotator, because you don’t tie up the road. You don’t block the traffic. Yes. I can substantiate it. I can get it and come over.”
Mr. Recht commented, “And, in West Virginia?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “I just used it down on the new highway not too long ago. I use it every day.”
Mr. Recht commented, “You use it every day?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Every day. I use the rotator every day. Yes, I do.”
Mr. Recht commented, “But, do you have to use it every day?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Well, you know what, no.
Mr. Recht commented, “Why couldn’t you…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “OK. Nothing. Now, I’m going to say that. No. You’d probably have to use it 85% of the time, ok. But, it’s that 15% of the time and you go out and, I mean I, they said they have two wreckers. Do they sit in Weirton? No. They go out with a wrecker. Then they call their other brother in with the wrecker from Burgettstown. Now, we got cops tied up. Is that fair?”
Councilman Ash commented, “I’d have to ask the chief about that. I mean, I…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Well, that’s what I’m saying. They have policemen. They’ve got a policeman caught up while their brother’s coming in. I don’t think that’s fair. If you have two wreckers in this town, you should have two wreckers. Now, the Pennsylvania thing that everybody’s saying passed, they have all the equipment for Pennsylvania.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Then how did you get called to Ohio? You’re not in Ohio.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “I do have a place in Ohio. I bought Staffalino’s old building.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Ok. So, what you’re saying now is you have a license plate in Ohio?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “I’ve got two license plates in Ohio, but I got 13 trucks.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Ok, so what you’re saying is you have a physical location in Ohio.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Ok.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “I have Staffalino’s old building.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Effective when?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Pardon me?”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Effective when?
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Oh my.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Along time ago?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes. Two years ago.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Thank you. So, Ohio calls you because you have an establishment in…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ohio’s called me prior to that.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “But, your rotator’s not physically located there.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Well, no I don’t keep it over there because the garage door’s not big enough.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “So, what’s the difference with you not keeping your rotator in Ohio and being called there as opposed to the Greene’s keeping their rotator in Pennsylvania to come to West Virginia.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok. I live in West Virginia. I live on Patterson. I could run to my truck faster than it takes his brother to get…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I understand that. I’m talking state lines.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “OK.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I’m not talking personal…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “OK, what, what I’m saying is there is no rotator in Ohio.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “No. No.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “If I have to run to Ohio to get a truck out of the garage I would. That’s not a problem.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I understand your point.”
Mayor Harris commented, “I thought they didn’t have a rotator in Pennsylvania.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “The issue he was raising is that they have their trucks in Pennsylvania so they come into Ohio. It takes a delay factor. So, the same I think would apply with you being in West Virginia being called to Ohio for your rotator truck. There’s a delay factor.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Well, I’ve been called to Burgettstown for a rotator because it’s a faster job when you get there.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Whether it’s Pennsylvania or Ohio, we have the same delay factor whether it’s you, Greene’s or anybody else.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok, how you figuring that? Tell how you figure it first. Then I’ll explain my situation.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “You’re telling us that you were called five times to go to Ohio with your rotator truck. Your rotator truck is not physically located in Ohio. So, you have to go from West Virginia to Ohio to do it. Delay factor.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “You made the statement, and I understand your point. The Greene’s have vehicles that are in Pennsylvania that West Virginia calls them up and they have to come to West Virginia, and there’s a delay factor.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “So, you have a delay factor. They have a delay factor.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Where’s the point?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “But, theirs run Pennsylvania plates into West Virginia.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “I’m not talking about plates. We can talk about plates any way you want to. That’s…”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok. Well yes…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “The issue isn’t plates. You made the point about delay, and that’s why I was addressing it.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok. It’s three miles to Steubenville. It’s…”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Seven.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “…no, seven miles to the amphitheater.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Ok.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “It’s about thirteen then.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “Ok. Thank you.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “All right.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “So, you’re saying delay is just a, in your view, three miles is ok but twelve isn’t?”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Yes. Yes.”
Councilman Fijewski commented, “That’s my point. Thank you.”
Mr. Cosenza commented, “Ok. No problem.”
Mayor Harris commented, “Thank you.”
The public hearing was adjourned.
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